| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| rderosa |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 21:53:04
Most visitors to the Meta Research website are probably familiar with the famous Nefertiti Face (Slide No. 42, Artificial Structures on Mars) of which the source is the MSSS website's MOC Gallery (M0305549)
http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04/images/M0305549.html
I had looked at the source image for Nefertiti many times, and was never all that convinced it was anything more than a "possible image" in the clouds. It was sort of convincing, but not totally.
Nefertiti:
{Image deleted temporarily} M0305549pg_n_smooth_half.gif
Recently, while working on a paper with my brother Neil, he suggested that there might be more of the body visible in another image strip available on the MSSS Website: Strip No. E0501429
While reviewing this strip:
http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e01_e06/images/E05/E0501429.html
I came across something that was mind-blowing. There didn't appear to be any more of Nefertiti's body, but there did appear to be two more faces in the same style! One of a profile view of a man in the foreground looking off to the side or rear at Nefertiti, and another of a woman below Nefertiti, looking the other way. {All of the images in this post, are croppings of E0501429, adjusted slightly for contrast and brightness and noise reduction}
Man:
{Image deleted temporarily} E0501429%20man.gif
Woman:
{Image deleted temporarily} E0501429%20woman.gif
And Dog:
{Image deleted temporarily} E0501429%20dog.gif
And for good measure, there's a Gargoyle looking creature looking down below:
Gargoyle:
{Image deleted temporarily} Gargoyle.jpg
Now, I was as skeptical as the next guy, when I first saw any of this stuff, but what are the odds of finding three more images all in the same location, all apparently connected in some manner, and all in the same style? Doesn't seem likely to me.
As a sanity check, I went back to the original image strip (No. M0305549) to see if I could see all of these faces in that image. They're a little less clear, and at a slightly different angle, but they can easily be seen.
Comments?
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| gorme |
Posted - 04 Dec 2008 : 20:35:06
quote:
Originally posted by neilderosa
Here's another mosaic that passes my subjective probability threshhold for artificiality; the famous "Scullface," (AB108403), first noted I believe by JP Levasseur and HW Crater. First image is for north orientation. Second is enhanced and colorized for easier viewing.
It ocurred to me that when I posted the "Crownface" and pointed downward to "north" that it might be confusing to some readers. This cropped image is of the Crownface (M0203051) as it appears in the Map Projected image. Notice that the face is upside down in this image, and north is "up," as it is in all Map Projected images on the MSSS website. ("North arrow" is for general direction only.)
A reasonable conclusion is that of the four faces I posted to indicate N/S orientation, the "Crownface" is the only one that is "south oriented" (more or less). That is, relative to the present pole position of Mars, of course.
Neil
The Crowned Face, Nefertiti, Cydonia, the city
http://www.ultor.org/lines/1.htm
and M0201733 (the spade):
http://www.ultor.org/M0201733.htm
Are all on a great circle. The equator is a great circle as are longitudinal lines.
M0201733 has a lot of building like shapes. I call it the spade because there is a large spade shape like off playing cards, see if you can spot it. |
| rderosa |
Posted - 01 Dec 2008 : 17:04:15
quote:
Originally posted by neilderosa
Looks like you have this figured out right. If they image it, I hope they do it on a clear day. NASA has taken to naming this region (Syria/Claritas Region) a "dust raising event" area. Good luck. Neil
Unfortunately, there are no constraints in the tool for "clearness of day" or even time of day.
I think we have to assume there's a certain amount of obviousness to the request. In other words, if I was to ask someone to take a picture of the Grand Canyon for me while they were there on vacation, I think they would know I want to see it clearly when they come back.
I'm not hiding the reason for the request. In the area where it tells you to justify the reason for high resolution, I tell them the truth, that this is a key artifact, discovered by Professor JP Levasseur, that will add to the resolution of the Artificial Origins Debate as it pertains to Mars.
So, if we can't see anything (assuming they do this), then they didn't satify the Suggestion, and I would make it again. I'm not holding my breath, but on the other hand, if the ship is within range, and they have the availability to image it, I think they may. They've already done two right in the neighborhood.
rd |
| rderosa |
Posted - 01 Dec 2008 : 17:04:15
898205680 |
| neilderosa |
Posted - 30 Nov 2008 : 08:11:22
Looks like you have this figured out right. If they image it, I hope they do it on a clear day. NASA has taken to naming this region (Syria/Claritas Region) a "dust raising event" area. Good luck. Neil |
| rderosa |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 15:22:16
quote:
Originally posted by rderosa
I got my suggested image site for the Profile Girl and Family into the HiRISE system. I had to finagle a little to get it done, but it's definitely in the queue with an ID number and all the trimmings. I'll keep monitoring it until it's imaged.rd
When I submitted my request back in April, I had to use a "demo" account that the adminitrators told me about. The demo account was supposed to just get me into the Image Suggestion Facility, and once there I was supposed to register under my own name and password. However, my attempts to register kept failing at the time, so I ended up posting my suggestion using the demo logon to get me into the Suggestion Tool. Some time later I discovered that the demo account didn't work anymore, so I pursued getting them to fix why I couldn't register under my own name, which they did.
Since my suggestion under the demo account never got imaged, I thought I would try over again, registering in my own name. This time I was successful in doing that, so that now I have a suggestion in place. It is Suggestion #31116. I put together some images from within the Image Suggestion Facility and Tool, to show the general area, and the location of Suggestion #31116 in reference to images we're already familiar with.
I've always believed that the Nefertiti Profile (Girl) discovered by JP Levasseur, is one of the key images in the Artificial Origins debate, and my hope is that by posting the details of my suggested site, we might get some help from the readers of this forum in getting them to image this site. I think if enough people contact them and request that they image Suggestion #31116 (submitted by Richard DeRosa), maybe we can move the debate forward.
All of the following images were obtained by taking sreen captures (bitmaps) while inside the Image Suggestion Facility and Tool, resized and then converted to jpegs in an attempt to keep the overall size down. For that reason, they won't serve as a starting point for further analysis, but rather just for context.
The first image shows the suggestion in blue, in the familiar MOC Narrow Angle Map, along with some recent nearby HiRise image locations:
The next image shows all the MOC Images in the area, specifically pointing out M03-05549 (highlighted in red)and it's relationship to Suggestion #31116. The centers are within hundreths of a degree in both Longitude and Latitude, and the suggested site overlaps the MOC swath in width, so if imaged close to the way I'm suggesting, should give us a pretty good look at the area.
Following are some other interesting perspectives. First the MOLA Map of the area. Note that this confirms a study that Professor Levasseur did with his students, which showed the area to be relatively flat. I'm not sure what the spacial resolution of the samples are that go into creating these images, but I suspect it's somewhat course such that small irregularities wouldn't show up. But the overall area does appear to be all one color. This is somewhat surprising, in view of other context images.
A lower magnification view of the MOLA Map:
The following two images are in MDIM Surface Mosaic mode. The first one is at maximum resolution the tool produces, and the second one is at 55%. Using a little imagination, there are all kinds of possibilities here. There are two large "profile" looking dark areas. The one on the left has it's "eye" right where the Profile Girl is. Considering what the MOLA shows, the first impression is that this is some kind of charcoal drawing of someone with a headdress of sorts......OR.....a pareidolic image of a charcoal drawing of a.....  . Unfortunately, the HiRISE won't shed any light on this one.
Maximum mag.
55%. Too bad the image is segmented so that we can't see what's off to our right of the scene.
This last one is in ThemisDayIR Mosaic Mode. Not sure what to make of any of this:
rd |
| rderosa |
Posted - 13 Apr 2008 : 17:30:52
T or E thread is done, although there are a couple more spam boxes in the first couple of pages that are in messages that Neil posted. He must have replied to a post of mine and copied the filelodge img code. He'll have to clean those up.
I checked the Pareidolia thread just to make sure, and it's clean.
The period from March 13 through May 31, 2006 was the only time I used filelodge, so I should have them all excised. If you know of anymore, send me an email and I'll fix them.
Now to see if I can get all those images from filelodge, download them to my computer, and fix this thread using photobucket. |
| rderosa |
Posted - 13 Apr 2008 : 17:09:05
quote:
Originally posted by rderosa
Let me clean up this thread first.
Done.
By the way, the "Pareidolia" thread is all photobucket. It's starts Jul 2006, so by then I was definitely not using filelodge anymore.
rd |
| rderosa |
Posted - 13 Apr 2008 : 16:42:04
Tom, I only used filelodge very early on in the process. Probably just this thread and the T or E thread. I never liked them anyway, and obviously I couldn't have known at that time that they would end up doing this spam thing.
I'll go through this thread first and delete all pointers to filelodge first, and leave myself a marker as to what image it was. Then sometime in the future, I'll try to replace the images using photobucket. Photobucket has never done this to my knowledge.
Please understand that this should only be affecting a very small percentage of my posts, so I think it would be somewhat Draconian if you deleted me and everything I ever posted. Although, if you think that's what you have to do, do it. I would think of it as "fung shway".
By the way, I don't even know who virob is.
Let me clean up this thread first, at least as far as getting the pointers out of it first. Then I'll do it in the TorE thread, adn I think that should be it. Let me know if you know of any other ones, but I think by then I switched to photobucket. |
| tvanflandern |
Posted - 13 Apr 2008 : 16:20:59
quote:
Originally posted by rderosa
I thought I'd dust off this thread in anticipation. This is exciting.
It is indeed exciting, and congratulations on getting this request accepted.
However, your "dust off" has revealed another problem of a more earthly sort. All your links to images at "filelodge.com" have been replaced by spam. Examine any of the earlier pages in this thread to see examples.
I must ask you to contact the source and get them to cease and desist, and/or for you to do some clean-up to get rid of all spam from our web site. It is forbidden by our charter. Our Board of Directors is already contacting an attorney to explore what actions are appropriate, presumably against the two pertetrators (filelodge and virob), because at this early stage we are eager to believe you are a victim too and did not know of the company's intentions to spam us after some elapsed time when you posted images at our Message Board using their web site as a holding base.
Please advise us of your actions in this connection as they happen and your plans for actions in the near-term future to aid us in determining what actions are appropriate for our Board of Directors to take. One thing we can do quickly is to auto-delete you and all your posts to all threads, especially since they apparently all dissolve into spam after some elapsed time and no longer serve their original purpose. But I hope there is a less draconian solution available for quick action because many of your posts originally had considerbale value. -|Tom|- |
| rderosa |
Posted - 12 Apr 2008 : 19:44:22
I got my suggested image site for the Profile Girl and Family into the HiRISE system. I had to finagle a little to get it done, but it's definitely in the queue with an ID number and all the trimmings. I'll keep monitoring it until it's imaged.
The swath should end up being a little wider on both sides than the famous M0305549 swath, so we should get a good look at the scene, assuming they don't miss my target area. They seem to be doing a pretty good job with suggested sites, so I'm hopeful they will get it right.
At first I thought I'd have a little problem with the coordinates, because the MOC coordinates didn't match the HiRISE tool. However the HiRISE guys gave you a way to say "image here", and they calculate their own coordinates. Plus there's visual feedback in the tool that let's you see that it came out right, so I don't see how they could end up imaging the wrong place. I'm pretty confident that if they take the image at all, it will be in the correct location.
I thought I'd dust off this thread in anticipation. This is exciting.
rd |
| DBAY |
Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 08:18:20
I think I found a new detail in the Nefertiti PI.
If one assumes that the PI girl is artificial made and it really shows the Egyptian queen Nefertiti, than it would be not too far fetched that she holds a scepter in her hand.
I see on the photos that her left hand is a fist and in the northwest of this fist are the faint fingers of her right hand, which are holding a scepter vertical.
It could be the so called ‘WAS Scepter’.
It could also be possible that she is holding a different scepter horizontal with the left hand fist - the dark area between left hand and right hand.
Dietmar
|
| emanuel |
Posted - 26 Jul 2006 : 16:13:11
Come now Larry (no pun intended), don't you think that says more about the explicitness of the wandering mind? :)
Emanuel
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| Larry Burford |
Posted - 23 Jul 2006 : 20:53:51
We use sex to sell just about everything (including sex). I doubt that our hypothetical Martians would have been any less sophisticated.
Has anyone else noticed that if you let your mind wander in that particular direction while looking at these images, a few of them suddenly shift to explicit, um, explicitness?
LB |
| Gregg |
Posted - 23 Jul 2006 : 13:34:31
Here is a little bit of objective support for artificial structures on Mars. I just spent 16 days in Beijing, China on engineering meetings. We had to do the usual pilgrimmage to the Great Wall. A lot of work to build but no evidence of high technology. However, we visited a mausoleum for a Ming emperor who reigned from 1370 to 1430 AD. Being an engineer, I looked for evidence of technology and most certainly found it.
Within the mausoleum, there are gigantic pillars which hold up the ceiling. Each pillar was made from a tree trunk. The pillars were about 4-1/2 in diameter and about 50 feet tall. They were perfectly round and perfectly straight. Close examination showed that they had been turned on a lathe. I would estimate the pillar weight at 25 metric tons. Lathes of this size and capacity were not developed in Europe and America until just prior to World War One. And even then, I am not aware of any curent indutrial lathe that would be at least 60 feet long with a 5 foot throw across the centerline. These pillars could not have been placed into a lathe and cut by manpower or even horsepower. Possibly waterpower, but I doubt it. This was all done in about 1400 AD.
The Chinese engineer was very sincere and a bit naive. He stated that the God who made the mausoleum came down from the sky. This is hardly communist propaganda. (In fact, the Chinese make lousy communists, they are all business oriented.)
I have always been lukewarm about Zecharia Sitchin and his general theme. However, seeing is believing, and I will concede this particular case to Mr. Sitchin.
Gregg Wilson |
| neilderosa |
Posted - 23 Jul 2006 : 02:31:52
I just discovered that the essential images pertaining to this topic have been removed or lost. Therefore I'm posting a few of the most important so the record will not be lost. Most of the dialogue will be self explanitory by referring to the following images,
M0305549 Profile Image.
E0501429 PI.
E0501429 First Family.
Family histogram adjusted.
Family key freehand enhanced.
Neil |
| rderosa |
Posted - 26 May 2006 : 16:11:08
quote:
Originally posted by emanuel
And here's the original key for the warriors (and woman) I posted, for new people who might have missed it the first time.
There's another face in the headpiece of the "woman". I'll post it, if you can't see it.
rd |
| emanuel |
Posted - 26 May 2006 : 13:28:20
Hi again everyone,
On a different note, I was looking again at the equalized version of the "warriors" scene and I noticed another face. And this one, in fact, is a frontal view and has symmetry. Here is what I am looking at:
And here is the equalized version where I first noticed it:
The nose, bridge, eyebrows and eye-sockets are pretty well defined. This is more evidence for artificiality of the Nefertiti profiles as well as this set of profiles. While I haven't changed my inclination towards a natural origin, the more of these faces that appear in the same strip as Nefertiti, the stronger is the artificiality hypothesis. The fact that this new face is not a profile, but a frontal view, supports the claim even more, I think.
And here's the original key for the warriors (and woman) I posted, for new people who might have missed it the first time. And, incidentally, the reason there is a split down the middle is because this scene was created by piecing together two of the Nefertiti MGS strips of adjascent areas that were slightly different angles (see the earlier posts in this thread for a full explanation and more images).
Emanuel
|
| neilderosa |
Posted - 23 May 2006 : 22:39:56
Here's another mosaic that passes my subjective probability threshhold for artificiality; the famous "Scullface," (AB108403), first noted I believe by JP Levasseur and HW Crater. First image is for north orientation. Second is enhanced and colorized for easier viewing.
It ocurred to me that when I posted the "Crownface" and pointed downward to "north" that it might be confusing to some readers. This cropped image is of the Crownface (M0203051) as it appears in the Map Projected image. Notice that the face is upside down in this image, and north is "up," as it is in all Map Projected images on the MSSS website. ("North arrow" is for general direction only.)
A reasonable conclusion is that of the four faces I posted to indicate N/S orientation, the "Crownface" is the only one that is "south oriented" (more or less). That is, relative to the present pole position of Mars, of course.
Neil |
| neilderosa |
Posted - 21 May 2006 : 16:31:35
quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix VII
I take it as north is up on these pictures
What I was trying to say earlier was that isn’t it strange that the faces in fact are like you expect faces to be, with their hair up and neck down.
Since no one picked up on Tom's cue to do a project to answer this question, I made a little foray myself. The MSSS aquisition parameters define North Azimuth as follows:
"In a raw or unprocessed MOC image, this is the angle in degrees clockwise from a line drawn from the center to the right edge of the image to the direction of the north pole of Mars. This number allows the user to determine "which way is north/south? and which way is east/west?""
I take "unprocessed" to mean "not map projected." The following two images are of M0203051, the "Crownface," and the other is of the M03 Profile Image. As you can see, north is not always "up" for these faces. I take "center to right edge," to mean a horizonal line perpendicular to the left and right edge. I confirm that I'm in the "ballpark" three ways; by comparing the result to the Mercader projected (Map Projected) image where north is (more or less) "up," by comparing to the context image when there is one, by looking at the shadows relative to the time of day. You could also compare the image to the MOLA map and match landmarks:
(Note: For the PI, I had to rotate the "not map projected" image 180 deg. so you could see the profile, and that's why the horozontal is going CW from the left side of the strip instead of the right. The Crownface actually appears in this upright orientation in the "not map projected" image.)
M0203051
M0305549
And here's the Cydonia Face (E170104). Since this "not mapped projected" image has been "messed with" in some small way, (it's not inverted or flipped, or rotated 180 deg., but merely "normal" but in a straight-up strip). I'm using deduction to tell me which way to take off from for my north indicating angle.
And paying attention attention to Tom's advice from another post, here's the E17 Face again cropped and straightened upright from the Map Projected jpg. As you can see, the two methods get you fairly close. It shouldn't have to be this hard, but there you have it. (Note 9.74 deg. W Longitude is the center of image.)
Neil |
| tvanflandern |
Posted - 27 Apr 2006 : 00:47:38
quote:
Originally posted by jrich
what is the justification for assuming that any artifacts that might exist were designed and meant to be viewed at the same visual range as our human eyes?
You raise an interesting question, but I see it as unconnected with the discussion so far, and in particular with the two comments you quoted. We were not discussing the range of wavelengths accessible to human vision, but rather the eye's ability to squint or dilate so as to adjust itself for lighting and contrast. The comments made were about comparing our eye's abilities with the spacecraft camera CCD's abilities. Clearly, for our experience and visual analysis abilities to kick in, we want to know what our own eyes would see if we were at Mars.
As for your point about wavelength sensitivity, we think that evolution made our eyes most sensitive to the wavelength range where our Sun gives off the most light. The same would be true for other species that evolved in our solar system with our unmodified Sun as their primary light source. Obviously, nocturnal or amphibious creatures or those who do not depend on light to find food would evolve in different ways. But beings on Mars, or who evolved on a parent world near Mars, would very likely have the same wavelength sensitivity as we do because they would have had the same primary light source. -|Tom|- |
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